tv America Live FOX News January 16, 2013 10:00am-12:00pm PST
thank you for joining us today. >> "america live" starts right now. >> megyn: fox news alert, on the next step in possible changes to our second amendment rights as president obama makes his case for gun control in america. welcome to "america live," everyone, i'm megyn kelly. the president wrapping up remarks just a short time ago to an audience that included family members of the newtown, connecticut victims, as well as gun safety advocates, law enforcement and four children who wrote him letters in the wake of the newtown tragedy. he signed 23 separate executive actions on gun violence and then essentially told congress that they have to pick up the ball from here. >> this is our first task as a society, keeping our children safe. in the month since 20 precious children and six brave adults were violently taken from us at sandy hook elementary, more than 900 of our fellow americans have reportedly died at the end of a gun.
now, these are a few of the 23 executive actions that i'm announcing today, but as important as these steps are, they are in no way a substitute for action for members of congress. congress should restore a ban on military style assault weapons and a ten-round limit for magazines. finally, congress needs to help, rather than hinder, law enforcement to do its job. >> megyn: chris stirewalt is our host of power play on foxnews.com. chris, the president outlined numerous actions he wants taken and that will be taken and as we discussed yesterday, they sound sound particularly controversial, it's that second part which we just played, the push for legislative action on matters that are controversial that is likely to make the headlines over the coming days and weeks, no? >> no, absolutely. and if you look at what was in there, it wasn't a lot. look, there are some things that could be far-reaching, but then it also includes
other things reiterating that his 2010 health insurance entitlement program that he calls obamacare, that that doesn't prevent doctors from saying that -- from releasing somebody's mental health condition to prevent them from getting a gun. well, that doesn't do anything. that doesn't mean anything. that's reiterating. so a lot of this was puff and fluff that he wanted to saying i'm doing these things, but he made it very clear, very, very clear what he means to do is turn the pressure up on congress, starting with his own party, i'm sure, to pass a gun ban of some kind. >> megyn: and we heard precious little in the executive actions or remarks about the mental health system. i guess they're going to staed it, c.d.c. study video games and the president wants them to get 10 million from congress as well, but this was all focused on guns and the push he's going to make legislatively will sound very
much like the assault weapons ban from '94 to 2004, but stronger, and the word he used, wants to strengthen out of the white house the bill proposed by senator dianne feinstein. >> if he got what he wanted it would be. part of the gun ban or the form of gun control that we've seen and you know, the interesting thing for the president is this: we know where the republicans are, the republicans don't want gun bans. they're open to some background check kind of stuff or some things that streamline or make more deal with mental health, but when it comes to banning particular weapons outside of the longstanding preexisting banning against automatic weapons, it's up to the president now if he really wants to get it done to keep the pressure on members of his own party. the n.r.a. is 60% of everybody in congress and a lot of democrats got money from the n.r.a. >> megyn: and harry reid was suggesting yesterday that they don't have the votes in the
senate, that this legislation would have to start in senate and he doesn't have the votes. he has the majority, the democrats do and if he doesn't have the votes, chris, this legislation isn't going anywhere. how much of today's proceedings were for the benefit of those democrats who may not be on board with the president's plan right now? >> harry reid, joe manchin from west virginia, bob casey from pennsylvania. the aim for the president now is to find these n.r.a.-backed democrats and squeeze them and put the pressure on and say, are you uncomfortable when i bring little children up here to talk about schoolplace shootings? i can do it in your state or where you live and i can come and keep the pressure on you, until you agree to do some kind of a gun ban and get on board. remember this, megyn, you hit it right on the head, if the president can't get legislation out of the senate, he can't begin to apply pressure on the house. he can talk about it, but until the senate can actually move legislation, it's not going to work, so somebody like joe manchin who we first
met on the national scene shooting with a deer rifle, the president's cap and trade bill back in 2010, if he can't get guys like that to sign up and get on board, nothing will happen. i bet he'll come with a pretty heavy hand. >> megyn: he's a west virginia guy, joe manchin and you're a west virginia guy. west virginia is not going to get behind the gun ban. what's the odds of joe manchin getting behind this, language he's more moderate on the issue, but what are the odds of that happening? >> well, there's a term we have in west virginia, it's called to crawfish, when you move back real slow and you-- >> i like that crawfish. >> and you crawfish back out of something, and it's possible that you could crawfish on something like this, in the wake of -- remember, he got reelected and six years to try it make good if he thinks this is the case. casey in pennsylvania is somebody the president would give much more pressure to. while a lot of his state looks a lot like west virginia, a
lot of the state is appalachian and western pennsylvania we know loves hunting and second amendment enthusiastic region, philadelphia, a lot of gun ban enthusiasts in the metro philly area, could be pressure for casey. for reid, i don't know. >> megyn: why would these guys put themselves on the line for a vote like that when they probably do not see it passing in the house and you're exposed. when pelosi tried to push cap and trade and weren't the votes in the senate and the reverse. if the people in the senate don't think the votes are in the house, why would they do this. >> because they want the president to stop beating up on him and stop pressuring them and stop bringing school children out and asking why they don't care about gun violence. we've never seen the president do much in terms of policing his own party, you know, when, when will the president get them to move on entitlement reform or get them to do. the president has kept most focus on republicans.
but in this case if he wants pressure on republicans he's got to get the moderate democrats from the red states to move first and get them to go first, he's got to get harry reid to go first and today was a warning. >> megyn: yeah, as they say politically he would love to go into the 2014 mid terms by saying, once again those house republicans, you know, did the wrong thing in the president's view, but right now, the way it's looking he's not going to be able to do that because the democratically controlled senate does not appear on board right now. chris, thanks. >> you bet. >> megyn: before president obama spoke, the national rifle association released an ad that has touched off some debate. it criticizes the president for accepting armed protection for his daughters at school, when mr. obama recently questioned the need for using police to step up security in schools across the country for regular folks. moments ago the white house responded calling the ad repugnant and cowardly. here is part of what they're talking about. >> are the president's kids
more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools? when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school? >> bottom of the hour, we will ask our panel if using the president's daughters to make a point is fair game, or does the n.r.a. go too far? might the n.r.a. have even hurt its cause with this ad? and we'll circle back to what we now saw was the photo opportunity that the president had with young children flanking him as he put pressure on lawmakers to do what he wants on this issue. both sides using children, appropriate? we'll talk about it. in the meantime, you can find out more about the president's specific proposals going to our website at foxnews.com/politics. well, as this all plays out in washington, we're seeing new fallout on the president's gun plan in states across the country. gun stores, as we have been reporting cannot keep their shelves stocked right now. we're hearing some 60,000 people are expected at a las
vegas gun show today. and lawmakers in at least two states are pushing legislation that would aim to block enforcement of whatever new federal gun rules may come along. trace gallagher has more from the west coast news room, trace? >> reporter: well before the president laid his his strategy this movement was growing. texas joining wyoming saying they are vowing to government the protection act. any federal law banning semi automatic handguns or limiting size of magazines, unenforceable in texas. and federal agents who enforce gun laws, would be in violation of texas law, i'm opposed to anything the federal government would do to go back on their sworn obligation to uphold, defend
the united states constitution. in wyoming federal law enforcement could be jailed for five years if they enforce gun laws. now, constitutional lawyers will argue that federal law trumps state law, but some lawmakers say there needs to be a showdown and this might be it. we're not just talking about states, but counties are pushing back, lindh county, oregon, tim mueller says he won't enforce federal gun regulation and won't allow the feds to do so in his county. listen. >> making criminals now honest citizens, that's not the path to go. if i could ask anything out of this, just get people talking about it. >> reporter: they're talking all right. in fact, we've got sheriffs in two other states, in kentucky and idaho doing exactly what sheriff mueller is doing, to defy the federal government and again, all this have kind of well before the president
lays out his strategy. >> megyn: thanks, trace. and a push to completely eliminate the debt ceiling once and for all effectively eliminating any legal checks on federal spending. up next, stu varney, what this could mean and why a whole new class of taxes is also now getting some buzz. and new controversy over reports that federal agents waited to arrest an illegal immigrant and a sex offender who worked for this powerful democratic senator, senator menendez, you saw in that picture there. what, what really went on? why was this done? an early morning rescue puts a whole new meaning on another brick in the wall. as firefighters-- did you watch this on america's news room with bill and martha? firefighters worked hours to free a woman who got stuck in a tight spot, how it happened. ♪ ♪ caught between a rock and a
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you >> dramatic news from the post office today as the postal inspector general, post office inspector general says the service needs a bailout or it could fold by the end of the year. the agency has reached its 15 billion dollar credit limit with the treasury department which means it effectively ran out of money. watch for the debate over this issue to heat up in washington over the coming weeks. >> intents on black mailing the country. they say to us, if you do not agree to massive cuts to social security, medicare, medicaid and other social programs, we will refuse to raise the debt ceiling and thereby cause an economic catastrophe. >> the process of raising the debt ceiling should not be used as a political weapon against the american people. >> and say a legislative relic
has now been weaponized. >> megyn: well, that was a news conference a short time ago. house democrats hold ago news conference to abolish the debt ceiling even as we watch the debt race up to the 16.4 trillion dollar limit and we hear talk now about circles of whole new class of taxes that the american people may be saddled with. stu varney is varney and company on the fox business network. they're not the majority in the house, but there is he' a push to make them the majority in the house. and president obama is reportedly maneuvering in a lot of ways, politically now to try to set the democrats up to retake control of the house and there's a question about whether as soon as 2014, if they get their way, they're going to get rid of the debt ceiling. what would that do? >> what they want is unlimited borrowing by the administration so the treasury
can say, i want to borrow, this, this, this, that, day and no restrictions on borrowing whatsoever. at the moment they've got the debt ceiling, a big restriction. removing it completely just gives the administration, president obama, a blank check to borrow and spend what you want. financial disaster, megyn, case closed. >> megyn: i know there are some democrats who believe and even some republicans argued this when he president bush was running up the debt and deficit and don't worry about it, it will work itself down the line and don't worry about the mounting debt and deficit. >> that's then and this is now. a debt as you pointed out 16.4 trillion dollars and rising constantly. we need a restraint on that debt. we cannot let it run away constantly. the and the debt ceiling is a restraint. what the democrats want is a blank check. i'm not sure it's constitutional because congress rules on the issue of money, not the executive branch. so, i'm not sure the
constitutionality of it. if you did abolish this debt ceiling, you would pretty soon get yourself a downgrade. these rating agencies would say, your debt is just running away. you're not credit worthy. >> megyn: the debt ceiling is in place, it doesn't seem they trust our lawmakers to live within their moneys and with the money. when you look at 16.4 trillion, they're right, we're not living in our means. and there's a question, stu, you see that number, i think of my kids and think of my children. who is going to pay that number? it's probably not going to be me. >> right. >> megyn: it's probably going to be my kids. >> look, for what is it, 238 years america's had a principle, we sacrifice today for the benefit of our children in the future. you remove that debt ceiling and you totally reversed that financial principle. what you're saying is, we will make our children pay in the future for the bills that we run up today. and that's a reversal of america's financial history for the past, what, i think
238 years. and there's a moral implication here. should you be placing the bills that you have run up on your children? i wouldn't do that with my children. i don't think the country should do it with its children. >> megyn: so this is why the republicans are saying, we're just not going to raise your credit limit, america's credit limit any higher, until we can get our spending under control and president obama keeps saying we'll he have that conversation, that's a separate conversation, raise the debt limit because we have to pay the bills and republicans say we're going to pay the bills and pay our creditors and may have to shut down government agencies for a time being. but they say you've never had the conversation, you keep saying you have the spending cuts, but you never do it. >> and the president consistently refused it consider spending cuts and he will not touch the entitlement programs. >> megyn: he had the big debt commission. >> but he ignored it, it was his commission and they reported. he ignored their recommendations completely. never took out one of them. >> megyn: what's the talk about this so-called vat tax. it's not the like the lawmakers are pushing this yet, but you're hearing more
and more in the think tank saying this is where we're going to wind up like europe. they have a vat tax. explain what it is and what would mean here. >> a vat tax, value added tax, like a sales tax, basically. it's a tax on when you spend money, as opposed to when you earn money. that's an income tax. the vat tax is a spending tax. okay? i was in europe when they introduced this thing, okay, and said to us, okay, introduce this consumption tax, this value added tax and maybe we can reduce or get rid of income taxes, didn't work like that. now they wound up-- >> wound up with both. >> in europe you've got a 20% value added tax, that's added to the costs of all products that you can buy. >> megyn: you can't have that here. some politicians have suggested it may be a solution, but they said you can't have a vat tax, these are republicans who ran for president i think in '08. can't have it unless you repeal the 16th amendment of the constitution that allows the income tax. >> i'm not sure of the constitutionality of it, but
supposed you call it an international sales tax. >> megyn: you cannot give them the power to take our income taxes and taxes on our consumption because we'll be taxed to the eyeballs. and this hits the middle the vat tax. >> absolutely. >> megyn: and everybody buys food. >> you consume something, you pay a vat tax, that's why the cost of everything in europe is much higher than anything you buy in the united states. it's like a national sales tax and in the current environment where washington desperately needs money, you've capped how much you can take in income taxes in our fiscal cliff deal. where else do you get the money? a consumption tax? a carbon tax? a value added tax? a gas tax, butat you consume. when you spend your money, you get taxed. that's a big revenue hog. >> megyn: it's a big number for a lot of americans, stu, thank you. >> sure. >> megyn: coming up, new details on a terrifying hour's
>> now a story about how a teen spirit is sidelined by flu fears in new york. the new york soccer club is banning hand shakes and high-fives for now anyway, and they didn't breathe on each other either, it's like, okay, kind of hard to stop, but all right. the president of the club happens to be an infectious disease specialist and she knows what she's talking about and says they're asking parents to keep sick kids at home. that's smart.
and using the word epidemic here, already more than 19,000 confirmed cases of flu, compared to 4,000 last year and seems more and more people are complaining about getting it, even after their vaccinations. well, it makes for riveting live tv, riveting might be stretching it. it was interesting though. and you may have seen it right here on fox news channel. firefighters desperately working to free a woman stuck in the narrow space between two buildings. there she is, see her? see her glasses? trace gallagher, i sat down for hair and makeup this morning and everybody's looking at the tv, how did she get in there? where was she stuck and how did she get there? >> reporter: i was in hair and makeup as well. no, i was getting ready for the show and looking the at the wall, what's going on and trying to get rode and turning up the volume and hearing hammer and cut away, go back, this woman apparently was up on the wall at three o'clock in the morning, having a smoke. of what we don't know. walking around and she fell
between the wall of the building and the parking garage, about a ten inch gap and she actually tried to wiggle out and panicked and she slid down the gap about 20 feet. now, firefighters got on the scene as you see a short time later and the woman was talking and alert, but very cold so she dropped her a blanket and pumped in propane heat and started cutting windows in the wall, but the concrete dust was bad and had trouble breathing. gave her is surgical mask, so they cut away a portion and inserted the air bags. >> in between the wall and building, the idea they're capable of lifting cars, very strong air bags and the idea we're going to spread this wall and cutting in, away from the building. >> reporter: so really gave themselves a little more working room and brought the woman's husband down to calm her down. they cut windows on each side and turned one of the windows into a door and with a little extra wiggle room, finally
eased her out. listen. >> that last couple of feet, she had that look of determination and i think we were all pretty convinced no matter what, she was coming out that way and we had backup plan to cut that entire chunk of wall out. hoping not to go to that, it's complicated whchen she got to the last foot and said i'm coming out. >> you saw the video and she was kind of screaming, yeah, i'm out! the question, megyn is, we've been local talking to people, nobody knows what in the world this woman was doing up on that roof at three o'clock in the morning, having a smoke. when we find out we'll break in. >> megyn: i mean, how do you fall? you go up there, how do you fall off the building, basically? i mean, in between this, this space? >> well, you can hop from the building to the parking garage, right, a ten-inch gap, somehow maybe she was toiling
around up there and walks up on the brick and then slips and falls and holds on and then panics and falls the rest of the way down. the buildings are right next to each other, i say ten inches, it might be eight, but it's a close gap in the wall. >> megyn: where was this. >> reporter: kind of looked down? this was in oregon. >> megyn: i was ready to blame mayor bloomberg for the smoking ban. and oregon probably has it, too, and have to go on the roof to have a cigarette. i'm glad she's okay. >> reporter: yeah, me he, too. thanks, trace, i'm not a smoker and secretly appreciate the rules and i understand, that, where are they supposed to have a cigarette now? i don't know. well, coming up, new developments in the scandal involving e-mail aliases at the epa, a scandal that may have led to director lisa jackson resigning, she denies that, but more and more suggestions to that effect are
coming from people who are familiar with the story. we're going to speak with the lawyer who first blew the lid off this story. without this guy we might never have known that lisa jackson also went by the name of richard windsor. that's her alias, which is the name of a pet and the name of her street that she grew up on, i think technically is what you'd do to get your porn name. did you ever hear that? so you go by your first pet's name and the first street you lived on and that would be your name if you decided to venture into naughty films. in any event, i digress. and we talk to the guy who blue the lid off the scandal and joins us live. the big new brawl over using kids in politics as both the n.r.a. and president obama use children to help deliver messages today. appropriate? and we'll investigate what's called the case of political correctness on the playground as two six year olds are suspended for playing a game
when mr. obama recently questioned the need for police to step up security at schools across the country. earlier, jay carney called that ad repugnant and cowardly. here is some of the ad currently running on the cable network, the sportsman channel. >> are the president's kids more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools, when his kids are protected by armed guards at their schools? mr. obama demands the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, but he's just another elitist hypocrite when it comes to their securities, protection for theirs, and gun-free zones. >> megyn: joining me now, monica crowley and julie from lautenberg, and when we
learned that the president was going to have the children when he made the announcement. and using children on an issue as controversial as this is appropriate, we got a mix of opinions. what about this? now you have the other side doing it in a different way, but doing it clearly. >> anytime you use children to make a political point it's always a very dicey proposition and you have to be careful about doing it on either side, i think. that being said, this president has used his daughters in campaign appearances, he used a beautiful child when he was signing obamacare, the health care bill. he has been known to use children as political props for purposes. and in this case today the use of the children in the audience as he was making the announcements on gun control i find particularly inappropriate because you're he talking about an issue that involves violence. health care doesn't involve violence, this does. use of the children i think went over the line. the point the n.r.a. is making and again, you have to be
very, very careful, especially when you're talking about the president's children, but the bigger point they're trying to make here, that the president's children do not go to school in a gun-free zone. they are protected, they have secret service. >> they're accusing him of hypocrisy. >> yes he, what it's actually saying, his children are more worthy of gun protection than yours. >> megyn: is that, i mean, the thing is, obviously, the president's children are in a special circumstance. they, they are under threat at all times, sadly, because they are the children of the president of the united states. there's a reason why they have 24/7 secret service protection and it's something that we in the media don't often highlight and tend to stay away from and i don't know that we should be discussing the security situation of the obama girls, but now, we are because this ad put-- and i understand the point they're trying to make, julie, but is it appropriate to talk about the security that these two little girls have? >> no, and it should not be a part of the issue. n.r.a. reprehensible, if this were the bush girls or it
would be the same thing. there's no excuse dragging little sasha and malia obama, not asked to be the president's daughter. >> who are in a special circumstance because they're under threat and i certainly don't know the situation, but i expect there are threats against them on a daily basis, kidnapping, et cetera. >> exactly right. >> to drag them into this and to discuss their school and inevitably this leads to which school do they attend. it's public where they go to school and they-- >> they start thinking about it. >> and this is leading us down a slippery, horrible slope, i believe will probably endanger the girls more than they're endangered already and the n.r.a. should pull the ad and frankly i wish we'd stop talking about it it, it's inexcusable. >> megyn: i mean, i don't know, you tell me he whether ceded their own opportunity to claim the moral high ground, i don't know. but president obama using the children today was a controversial thing and i asked one of the panelist yesterday, what if the
republican president went out there with a bunch of children and said these are children like the ones who could have been born if they hadn't been aborted by all the women out there who took advantage of roe versus wade? i'm doing this to protect the children. it's fair for me to use children because i'm trying to protect children. you know, that's how the white house feels about the use of children today. it would be extremely controversial. >> right. >> and what-- a republican president who was pro-life, if they'd done something like that, anytime you put the children in a political context you're playing with fire. these children wrote to the president-- >> that's a different issue. it's the parents decision to let the children be a part of it, is a different issue whether the president of the united states should have agreed to that. >> here is why it's so cynical to use children in this context, number one, violent part of the gun control debate which is what we're talking about. and secondly, it puts the opponents of any of these gun control measures in a very
difficult box. i understand wht did it and some could say he was very he smart to do it, but it's very he, very tough, not impossible to argue against children. you saw the children today, beautiful angelic children not unlike the ones gunned down in the newtown massacre, very difficult to argue against children and that's why they were used, but i find that use of kids really exploittation. >> megyn: what do you make of the president? and pick up on my question if a republican had used children to make a pro-life point? >> i'm not a fan of using kids and monica and i agree on this. look, ifrts up to their parents to figure out-- >> that's one issue and another issue. >> if it were my child, i'm not sure i would let them standing up there talking about guns, i'm not comfortable about it as a mother. i can't speak whether their parents are comfortable with it. the n.r.a., they have a lot, harry reid, and others sympathetic to the n.r.a. cause. what they did was so overplay their hands to use the obama
girls, for lack of a better words, they're probably going to alienate some on the democratic side that probably would have been with them before. >> megyn: and if you read the blogs, the argument, why does the president, why the president's family, they get gun protection and why can't my family get gun protection, and i know they're not under special threat, but now all children are under threat in the wake of newtown, who is he to tell me i can't have it. it's one thing for bloggers to talk about it and another thing for the n.r.a., hugely powerful group to come out with an ad like that. >> i think their most powerful ad, calling the president an elitist hypocrite. >> megyn: and david gregory was in there and a random collection. >> that's a powerful line, if you set aside the use of the obama girls and that's debatable, but the bigger point here is that so many of these people who are arguing for stricter gun control, they all have their own either private security, whether you're talking about the president, and i'm not taking away their right, obviously,
the president needs security. obviously his family does as well. but what we're arguing for is law abiding citizens to be able to continue to have the right and the freedom protected under the second amendment. and so when there's hypocrisy here, whether it's a hollywood celebrity or a leftist politician or the president arguing that you can't or that those rights should be curtailed, there is a huge element of hypocrisy and that's i think that's what the n.r.a.-- >> nobody is taking away somebody's right to bear arms. >> megyn: there are gun-free zones around schools. >> what the president is doing, allocating or trying to allocate money to school. >> megyn: resource office. >> and more police officers as well if schools want them and request them. i frankly don't want my child going to school with guns and it's my decision to send him to that school. the n.r.a., and everything else, kind of making a specious argument. >> megyn: thank you both. >> you bet. >> megyn: well, new questions in the scandal over the use of fake names on some epa e-mails
accounts and what if anything that agency was trying to hide. the lawyer who first uncovered the story joins us next. plus, the star war death star never managed to destroy the rebel base. i don't know what i just read. but did launch your ability to petition of white house. we'll explain. ♪ means living with pain. it could also mean living with joint damage. humira, adalimumab, can help treat more than just the pain. for many adults, humira is clinically proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. humira can lower your abilitto fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb.
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>> well, a new twist now on a scandal at epa over the use of a fake name on certain e-mail accounts. we covered this story after a freedom of information request last spring revealed that epa director, lisa jackson and others used aliases to exchange e-mails with outside groups, whether that was an attempt to evade freedom of information requests on controversial matters, perhaps the so-called war on coal, was the allegation that they were trying to hide stuff on that.
well, the epa called it standard practice, but ms. jackson resigned around christmas just as the inspector general within the epa started taking a hard look at this. she says the resignation was family reasons and nothing to do with the aliases and now they say it may be more widespread than we knew. my next guest thinks there's another reason to her resignation, he is name is chris horner, with the enterprise institute and the liberal war on transparency and you are the man who started this all, chris horner, we may never have known of richard windsor, the alias she was using had it not been for you. >> well, that's true. i found a very surprising memo this spring, while writing the book, "living transparency" and including document destruction, which on its face is criminal, g-mail, servers and a whole host of things and
under the administrator carol browner had destroyed her hard drive in violation of a court order-- i take it back, our hard drive, claiming she didn't use the computer for personal e-mail and i found out about the secret or alias accounts. we did ask for lisa jackson's e-mail discussing this war on coal. and i learned that she actually created a false identity. this is to our knowledge, the first time ever a false identity, a dummy employees lotus notes account on three of her computers. i have screen shots from inside the agency. sewing showing that we're taking it to new depths and the agreement to produce documents immediately following her resignation. >> megyn: when you first released this information to the public and we first got wind of it, we did a report on it and whoa, the epa was not happen and said, look, this is standard practice, they can't have people just e-mailing lisa jackson at epa because she'd get hundreds of thousands of e-mails and she's got to get business done and
that's all she was doing, but there was pushback, okay, then you come up with jackson lisa at epa or something readily identifiable. you don't use your dog name and the town or street you grew up on, because it makes it difficult for the record keepers to find your e-mails when you get a freedom of information request from people like chris horner. >> and the foia, freedom of information act, did not have a post-it up on the wall, richard windsor equals lisa jackson. because they'd been turning over he e-mails with richard windsor's name on them, several produced to us apparently inadvertently, and other people even signed lisa and now blacking out the name she used in the documents they sent to us and claiming it would violate her personal privacy. and you need to create a false identity in violation of federal law to correspond internally. this is not something that
everybody does unless they're privy too much, and saying everybody in the administration does it. and the inescapable threat of using this, you would subvert disclosing federal law. >> megyn: we're going to carry this segment over, because this is important. in your book you talk about it's not just the he epa and not just lisa jackson, there have been shocking examples of nontransparency within this administration to try to keep people who have the right to the information from getting it. from finding out what they're actually talking about on some important issues, so we're going to talk about that. i do want to ask you, you did get-- after she resigned you got a first wave of information that was released. did you find anything interesting under the richard windsor e-mail? >> i found that when they told fox news we have nothing to hide, that position is no longer operative because they, using the traditional black rectangle, blacked out the
administration's name on the e-mail. and hiding from us the taxpayer, reagan says i'm paying for this microphone, we're paying for this, on the windsor account. >> megyn: stay with us on the other side of the break. stay with us. of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach.
>> chris horner is back with us now, an attorney and fellow enterprise institute and author "the liberal war on transparency". let's talk about that. you talked about the lisa jackson thing in the greater context of suggesting that this government is not revealing to we, the people, what it has the obligation to reveal. can you give us any specifics? >> yeah, they're going to great lengths, give you a few examples, creating records, what the law considers records, avoiding searching for records and when they produce them, they're destroying them.
they're using industry lobby groups as go-between with liberal activist groups to avoid the britain paper trail. like the american wind energy association served as the cutout between the green energy and jobs push and america for center progress. they used aol out of the white house to strike the deal with drug companies you give up 115 million in lobbying and ads for obamacare and you get 4 billion in the bill. you conduct that deal if you have to conduct it on your white house whoeop.gov account not the aol account. the white house has a private server for discussions about u.n. programs subject to a lot of freedom of information act requests, including by me, they figured was a way to get around it and set up an elaborate process whereby they bring in private computers paid for by the taxpayer, access the government server that way, that destroys the document on the government's server with the only trace reese mange on privately
owned, though taxpayer purchased computer, refusing us access to search claiming it's private property. this is government-wide and deliberate and often elaborate and sometimes criminal like the last thing i described. >> megyn: i've got to run, but i want to ask you, did they all do it? is this something we see in every administration? >> that nixon guy had some problems, but nobody has approached this, nothing on the record. >> megyn: all right. may be another problem for president obama, promised to be the most transparent administration. >> we're trying to hold him to that. >> megyn: thanks. another potential scandal taking place in washington. did federal agents delay the arrest of a sex offender to protect a prominent democratic politician facing reelection? and the president's new gun control plan is likely to have an impact on millions of americans, but gun owners and gun owner groups may feel the change more than most. lars larsen joins us to discuss the announcement and
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>> new reaction coming in as president obama calls for a sweeping new package of gun control laws and sets up a new fight with congress over our second amendment rights. brand new hour hereof america live. welcome everyone. i'm megyn kelly. the president calling for major changes to our nation's current gun laws, announcing his plan to an audience that includes families of some of the children killed in the newtown, connecticut children in december, as well as survivors. and flanked by four children who the white house says wrote him letters in the weeks following the shooting. the president signing 23 executive actions which require no congressional approval and then saying that the most sweeping effective actions must be taken by congress. >> you know, on the letter
that julia wrote me, she said, i know that laws have to be passed by congress, but i beg you to try very hard. julia, i will try very hard. but she's right. the most important changes we can make depend on congressional action. they need to bring these proposals up for a vote and the american people need to make sure that they do. >> megyn: and joining us now, brit hume, our fox news senior political analyst. brit, what did you make of the president's remarks, the tone, the tenor, the children. >> i thought the children were nice and i thought the excerpts he read from their letters were affecting. and i thought the pit-- what i didn't understand, he did it at the end and started to play it as you were going into the last break, to impute
to those who might be on the other side of this issue, motives that had to do with profits and ratings and so on. i just don't think he'd get very far trying to build support for legislation when you accuse the people on the other side who may disagree with you on at least some of it of bad motives. it seemed to me gratuitous. >> megyn: we heard him do that two days ago in the press conference, why do you think that gun sales are going through the roof right now, people are stretching around blocks waiting to buy guns and he once again talked about the unpure motives of the other side, trying to gin up controversy and trying to make a buck off of the backs of, you know, the children in this case and the question is, brit, whether he really believes that because there are folks who remembers the bitter clingers remark. >> remember when he talked about -- remember on the
health care legislation debate when he talked about doctors performing unnecessary operations? remember that. >> megyn: yeah. >> to make money. >> megyn: just to get dough. >> i mean, that was surprising. my sense is that on -- down deep this is what he believes, sees the world in a perspective of a law professor and barack obama's experience of the world beyond the world of politics is limited. he was a community organizer and a law professor and lived in a liberal enclave in chicago and my sense is that his sense of how people who may own guns and live in the rural sections of this country and are passionate about the issue, his sense about them is pretty tenuous. >> megyn: i want to ask you about the wish list that the president unveiled today, the executive actions are one thing, he can do that by himself, but he's making a major push for legislation. we talked with chris stirewalt about the unlikelihood of that, at least right now, going anywhere in the democratically controlled
senate. he doesn't appear to have the votes with the democrats, but he's trying to pressure them and his which is list includes an assault weapons ban they say stronger than the one in place the first time around and also he wants to close background check loopholes to try to keep guns out of dangerous hands. i want to read you something from what the white house put out, brit. they write, this is requiring background checks for all gun sales is the single most important thing we can do to prevent gun violence and mass shootings like the one in newtown, they said making sure those who commit acts of violence do not have access to guns. even if he got everything on his wish list, adam lanza had access to the guns. they were his mothers, he stole them, she would have passed the background check. this leads people to believe that the president is using these as an excuse to push-- >> one point, i don't think anybody knows exactly how to
prevent what happened in newtown, this was stolen guns in the hand of someone who, you know, the other thing-- thinking about little kids, i asked my ten-year-old, 11-year-old granddaughter after newtown what she thought about it and she looked me right up in the eye and said psycho. and you look at this set of proposals and you know, mental health is a big piece of this. it's not a huge piece of this legislation and when you talk about background checks, the whole background check system is reportedly quite weak, with some states having as few as five people on their list to be avoided as far as gun sales are concerned because of mental health issues. so, that's a whole category of what he says is the the most important thing, that even if he were to make it universal and close the so-called gun show loophole and all of that, you still have the weakness of the underlying system that
would continue to be a problem and of course, it wouldn't do anything about the psycho with a stolen gun. >> megyn: the executive actions he's taking, too, 23 of them focus almost exclusively on guns and there's something about the c.d.c. studying, studying mental health and sebelius is going to study mental health and video games, but there's nothing happening on that right now. >> it's pretty clear to me, look, if one believes that the influence of hollywood and silicon valley, you know, put it loosely, with the combination of violent films and they're really pretty violent these days, and video games that are similarly violent, are a factor in all this, that side of the issue gets almost no attention in these proposals, practically nothing. and of course, one can't help, but note that this is a corner of the world from which the president has gotten a great deal of support and campaign money. now, i'm not saying that he's going soft for that reason, but he's going soft.
>> megyn: on the issue of national -- mental health, brit, which i mean there's no question, wherever you stand on gun control you could want more gun control than anybody, but you have to realize that the mental health system plays into preventing future shootings like this. i've said many times on the show, some folks are so focused on disarmor the shooter that they're forgetting to try to dissuade the shooter, get him help, get him out of the system, behind bars, do something. and when i look at these 23 executive actions, number 23, the last one on there is launch a national dialog led by secretary sebelius and duncan on mental health. i mean, i don't know, brit, it's the last one, it's a national dialog. is that enough? >> well, it's not what you'd call immediate legislative action of the kind that, you know, the white house has said anything major here has to be done with an act of congress. well, he proposes in this area, really, practically nothing to speak of and you know, i think that stands out.
it looks to me as if this is an issue. the president he, it seems to me, does things a certain way. he looks for thing where he can get legislation passed and win if he doesn't get legislation passed because he can then blame the other side and in a sense, going to set of trap for them. this issue strikes me, megyn, as a little different in that there are a lot of democrats who have found guns and gun control a very dangerous issue. and if he tries to pull them along with him on this and they get out ahead of their constituents, they're going to get in trouble. and that's why you hear this reluctance in the senate among democrats and elsewhere in the congress, among both republicans and democrats on this issue. this is, the president says this was hard. i think of course, goes on to impute, you know, bad motives who resist him. some of those people's bad motives including this: they'd like to be reelected. >> megyn: and the democrats
have 21 seats in the senate up for grabs. >> they do and some seats in areas where enthusiasm for firearms freedoms is pretty high. >> megyn: yeah, and in states that mitt romney carried in the last election. >> exactly. >> megyn: brit, thanks for being here. >> you bet, megyn. >> megyn: see you soon. you can go to foxnews.com for a breakdown of all of president obama's new gun proposals and the details on the executive actions that the president signed today. also, coming up in a just a bit we'll be joined by lars larson how gun owners and gun groups may feel about the president's plan for stricter gun laws. i mean, now, many folks are saying, look, a lot of the executive actions, reasonable, noncontroversial. i'll he ask lars whether that's true. is there anything he can get behind? because he seems to have a good window into how the gun rights groups feel. so we will speak with him in just a bit. and in the middle of this gun debate comes a new question about the cultural fallout of the gun crackdown effort after two six-year-old boys were suspended from elementary
school for playing a game as old as this country. trace gallagher has that story, trace. >> reporter: megyn, the second time in recent week that young boys in maryland have been kicked out of school for having imagery guns and using them, as you saw the fingers. in this case, two six-year-old guns of bringing imagery guns, as known as their hands, into the school and on the playground, a game of cops and robbers became a national story, the boys had been suspended and the problem is we don't know exactly why, the school can't explain itself. saying it's frustrating for school systems because a complete explanation of events cannot be provided due to confidentiality requirements under the federal educational rights and privacy act. but a child psychologist says six year olds are not developed enough to understand why their game got them booted out of school. here is what some other people think. >> i think they've gotten a
little strict and a little bit overboard on a lot of things. i definitely don't think it was warranted and if i was a parent i would be highly upset. >> gestures of guns and stuff like that would not be so much appropriate for in school, you know, especially recess. >> reporter: i mentioned two cases. the first case was a six-year-old boy who used his hand to threaten another student a couple of times, but his suspension was reversed after the parents absolutely irate, appealed this, and won. megyn? >> boy, times have changed since the 1970's when i went to school in my cow girl outfit with two fake guns in the holesters, trace. >> reporter: i know. and then you could play dodgeball, now you can't. >> megyn: i'm glad that's gone. but i got some scars that haven't healed from those experiences. and sadly, we are living in different times. all right, trace, thanks. >> reporter: okay.
>> megyn: we're watching a potential scandal taking shape in washington right now. did federal agents delay the arrest of a sex offender, illegal immigrant to protect the powerful democrat facing reelection? one was working for the other. we're going to investigate this right after the break. and he is the president's new pick to give the benediction at monday's inauguration after another pastor was removed from that spot over his controversial comments about 20 years ago. so, who is this man of the church? we'll find out in three minutes. also, fiery destruction in the streets of london after a helicopter crashes to the ground at the height of morning rush hour. what it it ran into in the sky that brought it down. >> and about two seconds later, there was another bang when the helicopter crashed down there. and black smoke and people running around everywhere. ♪ you know my heart burns for you... ♪
press exclusive that raises some uncomfortable questions for the department of homeland security. ap broke a story a few weeks back that a volunteer intern in the office of new jersey democratic senator robert menendez was in this country illegally, not to mention a registered sex offender. that's bad enough. but the a p's story was focused on the fact that the feds were, according to the ap, supposed to pick this guy up for deportation before the november election. menendez was up for reelection, but that someone in washington at dhs told them to hold off. the implication was that there was concern over how it might look right before this prominent democrat was facing reelection. so they waited six weeks until after the november election, and then they did it. and now, after considerable pushback from the department of homeland security saying that was categorically false.
it turns out maybe not so false. joining me now michael graham, a boston herald columnist, a new england talk show host he's been following this. welcome back. >> and living in massachusetts we call that a thursday. the political friendships turning out to keep you out of jail happen all the time and it's truly outrageous, it bugs normal people because what happens to you if like you have a paper work error and happened to me a few years ago and your license is suspended, you didn't know it and you get pulled over and you're going to jail, jail-jail over a piece of paper work. here is a guy, here illegally and sex offender and working on capitol hill and the department of homeland security affirmatively steps in not only are we not going to treat this guy like the criminal he is, we're going to give him treatment as if it was a minor paper work violation. >> megyn: when the ap broke
this story, mohamed security ca -- homeland security said you've got to wrong, ap, and senator charles grassley started asking questions and they have more power in terms of the ap, and got information from the obama administration and according to the documents that the ap now has and the ap is reporting as they first reported, washington ordered ice to hold off on that arrest scheduled to take place on the 25th for six weeks. while dhs is denying it was done for political reasons, the denials, categorically false, seemingly falling apart. >> this is what i love. politicians acting like politicians, oh, no, no, we didn't give special consideration-- by the way, he molested an eight-year-old. no, no, we didn't give special consideration, of the
eight-year-old molester, but because of cinco de mayo, or what-- >> i can't think of one. and ap saying for political reasons, but that's the conclusion that everybody is jumping to. but that's because there are no other conclusions. once again, did you hear all of those things i rolled through? to me, you're an illegal immigrant and you're working in the u.s. senator's office, and unpaid intern, sorry, how does that happen. >> megyn: let's start there. senator menendez, i want to make clear, i learned about this guy's status from the ap article, i had no idea that an illegal immigrant with a sex offender history was working in my office and apparently the sex offender happened while he was a juvenile and may have been difficult to discuss. >> disclose. >> megyn: find out, yeah, disclose. the point is they say there's no way to find out whether our interns are in the country legally or illegally because we can't check because they're unpaid. why can't you ask them for a social security number and then run it to see if it's real?
>> and right now, there are people who are here legally, who are looking for work legally, with green cards who can't find jobs because they're standing in line behind the criminal immigrant in front of him. and oh, my gosh, if a u.s. senator can't find out if he's here legally. how can the roofing company? that's crazy. >> megyn: and a pro immigration policy, but there is a security risk to our senators, lawmakers and others if we are taking unpaid interns, if the rational for not running any checks on unpaid interns on capitol hill is well, they're unpaid so we can't check out social security numbers, can't do anything. turns out we had a criminal, i mean, a pedophile, convicted criminal up on capitol hill working for a u.s. senator and you know, look how it's wound up. >> you're absolutely right. i'm sorry, megyn, i have to get to a more important issue, earlier in the show did you give out the rule for picking out your porn name. >> megyn: i did. >> and that story-- >> it wasn't me, lisa jackson did it first, she didn't mean to pick the porn name. >> disclose your porn name,
megyn kelly-- >> it's not good. ready. >> what is your porn-- how do you do it. >> megyn: noah bleep-- i wrote this down, monica crowley and julie were out here, and monica's is muffin hunt. >> yes, that works. >> megyn: and julie's is peanut metropolitan. >> and for people who don't know, by the way you, take your street name as a kid and first pet's name. what's weird is mine is ron jeremy, how straight is that. >> megyn: rick leventhal, his is link manchester. (laughter) >> i actually think i have some of his dvd's. >> megyn: well, john, my stage manager told monica crowley told hers is already taken and not going to be able to use that if she decides to take that. thanks, michael, thank you for being here. ron. >> thank you, rmegyn.
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petition from the people asking that america build its own death star and the white house decided it needs to make a change. trace gallagher reports on what that might be, trace? >> reporter: you know, you remember back when the white house first started this petition system in 2011, megyn, you only needed 5,000 signatures and that would get you a formal response. then last year they upped it to 25,000 signatures and found out that you could get those in about 18 days, various groups. by the end of the year, you could gather up 25,000 signatures in like four or five days. as after the president was reelected a flurry of petitions, of states wanting to secede from the u.s. and we covered those, and petitions calling for more gun control and excluding a christian minister from the president's inauguration. that apparently worked. and some were more amusing calling for the white house to build a death star spaceship.
and the digital director says it's wonderful to see so many people to use the website to air their views, but there are change quoting, we're making another adjustment to some-- to ensure that we're able to give the most popular ideas the time they deserve. so as of now, you have to come up with 100,000 signatures on the petition before you can get a formal response. that's going forward by the way, all those successions petitions are still fine. now if want to secede. 100,000 from this day going forward and then your formal response. >> megyn: apparently jay carney was asked about the death star proposal and he said something to the effect of we are formally opposed to blowing up planets. so you have that straight from the white house, trace. >> reporter: yeah, what's the first formal response we've had on that. >> megyn: and we should have alert that had with a scary alert. thanks, trace. >> reporter: sure. >> megyn: well, the president's new proposal for stricter gun control laws
could hit millions of americans, but gun owners and groups may feel the changes more than most. we'll look how they could be impacted and whether there's anything in the president's plan they can get behind next. . >> weapons designed for the theater of war have no place in a movie theater. hi. i'm henry winkler.
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terrorists from a national gas facility partially owned by bp oil. it happened earlier in the vast desert region near the libyan border. there you see it on the map. the u.s. officials are withholding names and details about the hostages for now, for security reasons. more on that as we get it. >> ask your member of congress if they support universal background checks to keep guns out of the wrong hands. ask them if they support a ban on military style assault weapons and high capacity magazines. if they say no, ask them why not. >> megyn: that was president obama speaking earlier at the white house making his case for tough new gun control laws in america. the president is calling for new restrictions on assault weapons and high capacity magazines among other changes but facing opposition from gun rights advocates and some lawmakers, including some democratic lawmakers. joining me lars larson, he's with us by phone because we
had a problem with the satellite link. and it's important to hear your voice on both sides. can you answer the president on that question. what's wrong with universal background checks. >> i'll tell you what's wrong, american citizens if they want to make a private sale between two people, they will have to somehow go and ask the government for permission for it. i've already said if i sell a gun to somebody i'll run a background check, it's possible to do right now, it's voluntary. that's not going to solve the problem. most the people who buy the guns and commit the criminal acts are buying them legally or stealing them. and some were stolen guns, obtained illegally and president and allies have realized how do you sort out ahead of time who is going to commit the future crime? so his answer is to tell everybody out there when you want to sell a gun to a friend or you want to transfer it to another member of your family, air going to have to ask the government for permission
first and put yourself in a government data base, and an awful lot of us think that's wrong, it's an intrusion, and even the brady bill said when you get background checked to buy a firearm, as i've done a dozen times or more, that those records are supposed to be destroyed after six months because americans don't want to be in a government data base to exercise a constitutional right. >> megyn: and i will say for the record that the white house put out today and said the initiative for background checks even on private sales, they said that there will be exceptions for family members selling to each other, and they note that they're quote, willing to be reasonable about that. >> you mean politics won't get into it like the senate intern sure, if you believe that, you probably believe the rest of what the president is saying. have you looked at the further of the executive orders, he wants hipaa your private medical information from your doctor and counselor will be in a case?
can you imagine a returning vet would say, i'm sorry you said something disturbing to someone at the va. >> megyn: i could see that, and in newtown, trust me when we all know that newtown was i think, first and foremost about a mentally deranged person and what we're doing to address that, i know not. okay? so that's number one. >> yeah. >> megyn: but to try to keep guns out of the hands, forget that law abiding citizens, but to try to keep guns out of the hands of the. [whistling] is something we need to do a better job at and if we have to-- i don't know, invade to some extent, the privacy between a person and their psychiatrist, is that a compromise we need to make? >> yeah -- no, it's something that we shouldn't do because it's far too dangerous and there's no way for you or me as journalist it is to go and examine what they're doing.
what kind of things could you say to your doctor or your psychologist or psychiatrist or marriage counselor that might get you on the list? i'm sorry we can't tell you that it's protected by hipaa, but the president calls hipaa unnecessary legal barrier, which he is going to gut because he wants access to people's most personal information. >> megyn: what if you had an adam lanza sitting there with a psychiatrist, the shooter in newtown, saying, i want to go shoot up a kindergarten class. >> megyn. >> megyn: and that psychiatrist-- >> you're a lawyer. >> megyn: already there's an exception, i know, already there's an exception. >> you'll appreciate this because right now if i come to you as my lawyer and i say to you, i did it, i did commit a crime, you have to keep that private. but if i come to you and say megyn, next week i'm going to kill my next-door neighbor, the law currently allows, a doctor, a lawyer, a psychiatrist to report those things and in fact. >> megyn: sure. >> in the aurora, colorado case the psychiatrist did just that. future acts are not covered,
as i understand the law, by those attorney-client or doctor-patient relationship. >> megyn: there's a standard, you're absolutely right, a standard with a threat-- >> the president is trying to solve a problem that he doesn't know the law, i forgot he's a law professor. >> megyn: and if you look at the background check, it will solve it, in newtown that wouldn't solve it. his mother had a background check and many guns. and the shooting not in aurora-- and exactly stole that gun. >> megyn: that's what leads to people who want a gun ban saying that's why we need to ban assault weapons because that will keep those weapons, they talk about the ar-15, which is what they use in that mall shooting, out of the hands of those lunatics. >> megyn, i've told you before, i have rifles just like the ones that were used at aurora and at newtown and i don't commit crimes with them
and i can tell you with great confidence i'm not as schooled as some people over these weapons, if you give someone like the shooter, six rounds magazines and four or five seconds in the amount of bullets he fires, are those four or five seconds difference going to make the difference? the answer is they usually never do. and thurston high school, years ago, an example where a couple of well-schooled gunmen realized a magazine was being changed and tackled kinkel, but changing magazines is not going to stop these guys, whether it's 10 or 7 like new york did or one as connecticut wants to go to, no gun with more than one bullet in it it doesn't change the safety, but it does interrupt, it takes the firearms we own and say you can't have these anymore. >> megyn: and we've been talking on the show the woman the it victim of a home invasion and fired six bullets, five of which went into the intruder as she had
her children there and still was up and running and he drove away. she limited to one bullet, may have been a different result. i want to ask you quickly. >> yes. >> megyn: is there anything you can get behind, lars? >> yes, more enforcement. existing laws. for example, the president himself mentioned that people walk in, attempt to buy a gun and if you attempt to buy it illegally and i'm a fell mon and walk into a gun store and attempt to buy a gun. filling out that form is a crime. ask why the justice department isn't currently going after every single person who illegally attempts to purchase a firearm. why they spent 2500 strong into mexico and why they aren't currently enforcing the laws already before they try to take more rights and privacy and intrusion into the lives of couples, veterans and everyone else and enforce the laws they've got on the books which they admit they aren't doing. >> megyn: that's one of the of the top things that the president is aiming at with his executive action he wants to see more enforcement of the
laws as they are on the books. >> why hasn't he done it over four years? and why didn't he, the weapons assault ban during the time he had the congress-- >> good questions, leave them up in the air. they say every dog has its day, but now every dog owner could have his or her day in court. should you be forced to pay automatically if your dog bites someone? what if you have a defense? one state says you may be strictly liable. basically you don't get to offer any defense in particular if you have a pit bull and it bites. legal? that's next in kelly's court. plus, when life throws you a curve ball, throw a bucket over your head. look at this fast thinking robber. wait until you see why. ♪ [ female announcer ] today, jason is here
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>> fox news alert. we're getting reaction, the first reaction from the n.r.a. now to the president's news conference, releasing a statement that reads in part, throughout its history the n.r.a. has led efforts to promote safety and responsible gun ownership. keeping our children and society safe remains our top priority. the n.r.a. will continue to keeping our children safe and securing our schools, fixing our broken mental health system and prosecuting violent criminals to the fullest extent of the law looking forward to working with congress and bah, bah, bah, bah. it's in the prompter, don't have in front of me. want to work with congress and bipartisan basis to find real solutions for america's asset, our children. attacking firearms and ignoring children is not a solution to the crisis we face. i'll have more on that as we get it it. and kelly's court is back in session. a move that has dog owners in
one state barking mad. a court in maryland ruled that any pit bull owner or any landlord to a pit bull owner is liable. meaning, no trial necessary, no questions asked. if that pit bull bites somebody. just period, end of report, you're guilty. now that ruling is being appealed, but maryland's lawmakers are pushing to extend the liability not just to pit bull owners, but to all dog owners no questions asked, if their dogs happen to bite. even if there is no prior sign of aggression, pet owners are fighting back. and defense attorney randy zellen, debut appearance in kelly's court, this is exciting and legal analyst mercedes colwin. also exciting. maryland does not like pit bulls found they're inherently dangerous and own one and bites, even if it's sweet its
whole life you're guilty and you have to pay. >> i think it's a great ruling and you look the statistics, they are staggering, a thousand injuries per day over 60% of them, which dog is it? pit bulls. so, there's historical data that supports that type of ruling and the injuries to this child were nearly life threatening and apparently, there is other evidence that this particular dog in this case had some propensity, so the court said we're done. if your dog bites, if this is a pit bull, you're liable. just like strict liability with other issues and facts across the nation. >> megyn: but randy, the ruling that pit bulls are inherently dangerous are not without controversy. look at the animal rights websites and so many say it's opposite. it's not so, some are dangerous and some aren't? >> put that issue aside, is maryland no longer part of this country? last time i checked our system of justice is something called due process and when you want to find someone liable for doing something wrong, you've got to prove knowledge. now, all of a sudden, we don't
have to prove knowledge, particularly when it comes to man's best friend? this is, this is nuts. this is not how we do things. we don't step up to the plate where the count is 0-2, and you're looking the at strike three. you're allowed to walk into the courtroom with a level playing field. lady justice is blind and now all of a sudden, we don't need it. pit bulls bite, you're done. that's not how we do things. >> megyn: now, a lot of people were jououtraged in the wake of this ruling and people challenged. saying i'm getting kicked out of my apartment building because my landlord is worried he's going to be found liable, which he is, the way the laws stand. so you're making me choose between my dog and my apartment. and the thing is in response, maryland lawmakers are looking to make this ruling to some extent broader, saying all dog owners are presumed liable, it's a rebuttable he presumption, you can try to argue i didn't know, but
you're presumed liable if your dog bites. is that fair? >> it is fair, look at the injuries. i'm a dog owner i know what my dog's habits are and ensure people to be protected. she's only eight pounds, but pretty vicious. and information i have full control and custody and noi the behavior, i should be the one that's held responsible for the behavior of my dog. and there is a due process. you raised it exactly right. there is a presumption when you go in, that you're responsible. >> megyn: why that fair? let's say-- randy, what if your dog has no history of aggression and i know you can prove that, it's a rebuttable presumption, you can rebut it. why should you be behind the eight ball from the beginning? >> it's ridiculous and you know something, megyn? there are collateral consequences to this that really haven't been thought of. you're going to clog up the court system because the ridiculous lawsuits that would otherwise never make it into a courtroom and get dismissed on the papers, now suddenly they're going to end up in a
courtroom. so people who really need access to the courts, they're not going to get it. people are going to be spending more money, insurance companies, who invariably often times ends up having to defend these things, insurance costs are going up, because now litigation that should never ever go anywhere, suddenly, now, don't have to prove knowledge? >> what do you do with the injuries? what do you do with the kids that get bitten by dogs? and by the way, statistically, 70% of those bitten on a daily basis are children. so, who cares about clogging up the courts, and the injury-- >> have a case or go home. you don't get an unfair advantage because of man's best friend. >> well, other areas. >> megyn: i say this as a dog owner and as a mother of two very young children, now, three and 21 months. it's not always the dog's fault. i mean, little toddlers can be very aggressive with normally peaceful dogs and most dogs are great and they'll let the kids, you know, beat up on
them and won't bother them. some dogs get pushed to the edge and it's not always, it doesn't always men you have a vicious dog, mercedes. but really i think the courts and legislators looked at this, we have individuals injured every day and we have to do something and who was the better way of protecting those individuals out there? it's the owners of the dogs. >> megyn: what about the parents of the children, keep them away from dogs they don't know. >> they certainly can do that, but still, there still is a risk to those individuals with a dog and we as owners you and i are both dog owners and we know the behaviors of our dog. we should be the ones responsible if there's an injury to the child. >> megyn: and finish up on pit bulls. a lot of people want to eradicate that breed period. it's wrong and unjustified. 29 people died from dog bites. i think about 15 or 18, 18 were from pit bulls. 12,000 people died from gunshot wounds, let's spend more time worrying about the hands of the people who have guns, not the hands of the people with leashes. >> megyn: it all comes full circle, we work the news of
>> new details in a horrifying helicopter crash in london. police say two people were killed he when the chopper came crashing down into a street sparking a huge fire t happened at the height of the morning rush in the center of london just across the river from the houses of parliament and big ben. amy kellogg is live in london with more. >> reporter: and now, investigators still don't know what caused the crash, but we do know that the pilot had asked for a diversionary landing before the crash due to some visibility issues. eyewitnesses say that the scene looked like something out of a war movie.
when the helicopter crashed into a fiery ball. and some of the wreckage setting neighboring cars and building on fire. of the commercial pilot keith barnes known as a pioneer in the sky, traffic reporting in the u.k. was killed as was a person on the ground, who has yet to be identified. 13 others were injured and the center was set up to deal with those who were in shock. this is the first time the mayor of london said that he could remember in aviation accident in the center of the city and he described the scene of the crash as very disturbing. >> it's a scene of -- a tragic scene of a, a wreckage of a carbonized helicopter and of course, great deal of damage done to an adjacent building and it doesn't take a great deal to imagine what could have happened, had that helicopter crashed into a bus or a heavily occupied building. >> reporter: and a sign of the times, many of the
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